Health of Our Children

There are many conditions for which many parents take their children to the doctor but which do not actually require a doctor's care. I suggest that the parents you're talking about are being more careful about when it's necessary to go to the doctor.

Just from reading answers on this site, I think that many parent's rely to much on the doctor when they could take care of the situation themselves. In past generations parents were more knowledgeable and self-sufficient. That's OK.

unfortunately - some people place money on a higher priority than their children...

they think if they take 'em to the doctor they will have to fork over the money right then and there - most doctors, like you said - WILL work with you!!!

Otherwise - I don't know why someone won't go...money, or lack thereof, will not stop me from taking my child to a doctor if needed..(I won't take 'em for a stubbed toe - you know what I mean!! right?)

I dont know one single person that refuses to take their kids to the doctor when its serious.

But i am one of those moms who, if i can handle it myself, and its not a big deal i WONT go to the doctor., I think the doctors and hospitals get overused, not underused...but thats just my opinion.

Um I grew up like this. My mom was a single parent and my dad is dead. We had catastrophic insurance meaning doctors were out of pocket but we'd be covered in case of an emergency. We didn't go to the doctor for just anything. I'm the same way with my son. If he was really sick I would take him but mostly I just watch him for 24 hours to see if he's getting better. He's had 3-4 colds where we didn't even call the doctor. I think parents have a good instinct about if something is really wrong.

Actually, most Peds will NOT take your child if you're self pay if you can't pay the entire "base" fee up front. In our area, that's $250-$350 (labwork and testing you get billed for, and if you're too far behind, they won't see you again until you pay OFF your bill). Most hospitals will refuse to treat you or your child if you cannot pay, or are behind. That's just the way that private healthcare WORKS. You find some practitioners that will eat the payment to see your child, but they are few and far between.

The ONLY hospitals that are "required" to take you regardless of your ability to pay are County Hospitals in most states. (Publicly funded &/or subsidized). Community hospitals used to, but most community hospitals have been bought by insurance companies. Who don't take you, if you can't pay. I've seen a man holding his foot in his hand turned away by an ER and sent (2 hours away) to County. (Argh!). But he wasn't bleeding out, so they weren't required to take him. Even then, ERs all have a little sign on them saying that they will refer you to another facility (aka county) the moment you are stable if your situation is life threatening. More and more, though states are going down to ONE state funded hospital, instead of individual county hospitals. Some states are lucky enough to have church run hospitals in addition to "county", and some states are lucky enough to have children's hospitals that will "take anyone regardless of your ability to pay".

We happen to be really LUCKY in that we live 5 minutes from Childrens. They're private BUT they will take anyone, and 30 minutes from County.

Many people live 6 hours or more away from a hospital that will take their child if they can't pay. Many people don't have sliding scale clinics or free clinics OR are rightfully worried about the quality of care their children will receive from sliding scale or free clinics.

Half my family works in healthcare (surgeons, nurses, research scientists). I've spent years working in healthcare. I've also been sans insurance for 6 years, although we have it now.

You are really really LUCKY if you know doctors who will take you, or set up payment plans (as are we). But most people aren't that lucky. Most people without insurance are SCREWED. So they wait until there is no other option. And they don't eat to get their kids taken care of.

There's a game called "Hard choices".

Which would you do? Buy your child necessary medicine or feed your family for 2 weeks?

Which would you do? Take your child to the doctor or pay your mortgage on time?

Which would you do? Discontinue cancer treatments for yourself to get your child in OT, or continue the cancer treatments and discontinue the OT for your child?

Which would you do? Take your child to a clinic which has glued a child's eye shut (blinding them), misdiagnosed, and generally just has a bad reputation for sub par medical work... or let them have a burning rash for two weeks until you can pay to take them to a good doctor?

Which would you do? Lose your job to drive 6 hours each way for a County Hospital, or wait until you can save up the money to go to a local hospital?

Which would you do? Sell your house and live in an apartment to buy health insurance that costs as much as your mortgage, or keep your house and pray to god that you can save up enough money to make sure your kids are taken care of?

These, and many others, are choices uninsured parents make EVERY DAY.

I don't knock other people's hard choices. Anything beyond immediately life threatening, for those who can't afford medical treatment is a hard choice that I can't judge.

How sick is the kid? I can afford to take my son to the doctor but also don't want to pay a co-pay just to have the doctor tell me "give him tylenol." If he's REALLY sick or has a VERY high fever then I'll take him instantly or if he has a fever that will not break after 24 hours. Now imagine being a family who has no health insurance and is looking at a $100 office visit fee to possibly get told the same thing.

If your talking about a serious medical issue though and not just a cold then I can understand your argument.

Oh and I do agree that never hospital and ER or doctor are super flexible. They will try to work with you, but they have their own restrictions and requirements. As far as the write off programs, I filled those papers out for my labor and delivery with my son and it is quite extensive, so it's not just easy to get that granted and they still didn't grant it all.

I sometimes don't take mine to the doctor because of the expense...but only in situations where it is questionable if they really need to see the doctor or can wait it out. Many times, I take my kids to the doctor when my parents would never have taken us. THe best example would be if it were a virus or something that needed antibiotics. I would keep them on bedrest, home from school, away from other kids, etc. but might not take them in if I suspected it was a virus and there might be no need to spend money I could otherwise be using to feed them. Money is never more important than our kiddos health, but when you live on a VERY tight budget, you have to make hard calls sometimes.

When you spend 500 per month on health insurance premiums, 112 on auto insurance premiums, and another 100 per month on life insurance premiums, add to that the high utilities, cost of food, taxes that are never ending, there simply is NOTHING left for co-payments. I can't get my husband to agree to buying only catastrophic health care ins.

In my early years as a parent I took my kids over everything. I was freaked out by things that were literally nothing. I just didn't know. Now that I'm older I know more about what is needed and what isn't. I've also learned the hard way that often when I went with things that were borderline, they did nothing. Now I just do what I can to make sure that I am not wasting my time or my money. I also keep my children pretty darn healthy with lots of vegetables and good habits. I use over the counter herbals for things that I can like pink eye. We haven't had a case of real pinkeye in years because we use the over the counter stuff at the first sign of watery itchy eyes or crusty stuff. It never gets to the gunky stage.

I would not neglect my kids. But I have neglected myself for the last few years. I simply have no choice. I won't choose between paying co-payments and putting food on the table. Frankly, if I make a mistake, ignore some signs and die, at least my kids and my husband will have our insurance policy. It's CRAZY how hard it is to be middle class in this country. No one writes off ANYTHING for us and no one accepts our payments. Doctors offices see good insurance walk through the door and demand up front payment.

The last time I took care of my teeth I went to 4 dentists and came home balling every time I had the print-outs of my cost. I finally ended up going to a low income place, claiming I had NO insurance and making 300 dollar monthly payments for 2 YEARS. It was actually cheaper to pay that place and get substandard care by people doing their clinical work than it was to use my husbands insurance. I didn't have to lie about my income. I just didn't tell them I had insurance.

I want to go back to school. I can't get grants. I can't get low income loans. I have to pay the payments as I go. I'm supposedly able to pay thousands of dollars that I don't have. I couldn't even starve myself through school. Even if I sold the van, shut off the phones and cable, I still would not make enough to pay for school. I am going to do those things and go very slow.

Truth be known, I am envious of the poor in this country. I simply don't have the courage to make my family suffer to get my goals accomplished and I don't know how to work less than 24/7. And yet, middle class is where I am and where I've been and somehow, some day, I will GET OUT.

Sometimes here on mamapedia it is hard. It seems most everyone is well to do with insurance and plenty of money for food, housing, gasoline, etc...it often appears that most have no issues as far as basic needs go.

I get upset when the posts start talking about how only poor people shop at Walmart and that they would never do that due to the food being substandard. It is hard for those of us who have had life changing events happen or those of us that can buy groceries and other things we need because we shopped better.

I think so many times people have never had a hard time figuring out where the money for dinner is coming from and had to go sell something just to get milk. I haven't had it that bad but know people who have. With the government budget cuts and social programs being cut it is hard for those of us that have no insurance for ourselves to get medical care much less the children we care for.

I am a 50+ year old woman who NEVER expected to be living like this. I have been married for nearly 20 years to my current hubby and in that time he has gone from a union job where he was making more money that the engineers he was working for on a yearly basis to being on disability for heart related issues.

After he got laid off from being a lab tech he went to work for a local Electric coop as their internet specialist at about half the amount of salary, then got laid off after they sold that business. He then went to work as a DSL technician and he was barely making more than minimum wage with only enough insurance for himself.

He had a heart attack and had emergency quadruple bypass surgery for the 100% down to 87% blockages in his heart. He had the test on Friday and was taken by ambulance to the surgery room doors.

He was off work for 2 years before SSDI went in effect. The savings are gone, our home and vehicles are gone, repossessed, we lost all our credit ratings, and we lived off all his life insurance and retirement to keep a rental roof over our heads and an old beater vehicle on the roads.

Then my daughter decided to drop off her kids all the time and eventually we got full guardianship of 2 out of 7.

As a grandparent raising grandchildren our grand-kids get full medicaid. They can go to the doc anytime they need BUT program after program is being cut.

My grandson has excess ear wax and the doc said it is such that we should never try to do it ourselves, but now it's not a paid treatment and he is getting ear infections again. We don't have any extra money, it just isn't there. So we have to try and get it out ourselves.

I work 3 part time jobs to keep groceries on the table and sometimes I don't eat but a few bites so the kids can have all the seconds and thirds they want. It's part of life. They come first.

I feel that parents who have never been in my shoes may not understand. I don't willingly let my grand-kids go without treatment, ever, but if it's not a code that medicaid will cover what is there to do but try and do both in some way. It is harder on us than anyone else. I would not let my grandchildren suffer with an illness they would of course go to the ER and then if there was a bill left over it would have to go unpaid. Call me lazy, whatever... putting food on the table and a roof over their heads is more important. I would love to pay my bills and be able to hand over $5-$10 per month to the medical community to pay outstanding bills but the interest is more than that each month so they say they cannot except payment less than the whole amount.

Exactly what Marda said.

Now if a child is seriously ill-that is completely different. But there is a whole lotta GET TO THE ER hysteria that seems to get thrown around too often here.
I trust my gut.
DD (almost 6) has been to the Dr. 3 times for things other than check-ups. 2 of those times were for skin problems.
DS (16 mths.)-I called on a Sat. evening once for a problem-that's it.
Neither have ever taken an antibiotic.

Not only does it cost money we don't have to go to the Dr. for things I can take care of myself...but more often than not you pick up some other germ/virus/bacteria at the Dr. office/hospital.

Which is so not worth it, IMO.

Again, I am talking about run of the mill illness/fever-not when you know something isn't 'right'. At that point, money would not be in the equation.

My IL's are at the Dr.s office and the ER and Urgent Care at least once or twice a month-for sneezing or coughing or all kinds of silly things. It is insane! They pop antibiotics like candy, of course they get sick all the time. They are creating super bugs.
A cycle of perpetual sickness!

No thanks. I'll take care of my healthy little family. ;)

I see two different issues in your post. One is lack of money and/or medical insurance, which is a real issue for many. And the other is the potential overuse of the medical system.

My clinic had a program for awhile trying to educate parents not to run to the doctor for every cold and low grade fever... When I was a kid, if my mother took me to the doctor and they suspected a common virus, they'd still have me bend over and give me a shot of penicillin "just in case". Now I'm allergic/sensitive to penicillin and several other antibiotics. So overuse is an issue, both in side effects like antibiotic resistent diseases and allergies/sensitivities. A more general result of overuse of the medical system is cost. And that cost is shared by all of us.

I think we all need to use our judgment when deciding when to see a doctor. If my child has a high fever, symptoms of a known or unknown serious illness, or pain or injury, of course I will take her to a doctor! I'm lucky that she has good insurance because her father is a veteran. I would do whatever I could to find the money for her care. But, if you have no money, you have no money. And not all doctors/clinics/hospitals will work with you on payments or forgive payments. My brother had to declare bankruptcy because of medical bills and this is getting to be more and more common. I read that a majority of bankruptcys in this country are caused by unpayable medical bills.

Well, the last time my son got a nasty scrape from a rusty object in the yard on a Saturday night, and he was taken to the ER for them to wash it, check it, and give him a tetanus booster (not full dose) we got billed $1200. That's WITH the out of pocket discount. They called it "surgery" because the nurse clipped a piece of hanging skin. No amount of contesting and complaint filing brought down our balance-believe me I spent countless hours fighting the bill and contacting everyone under the sun about it. It was added to the debt of our 3 out of pocket child births including emergency c-section (finally paid off after 5 years of huge payments-not as huge as monthly private insurance payments would be, and at least we could send less on bad months-but still a huge payment to us every month) as was my last gyno exam which ran over $500. Not to mention the same son has been to the ER several other times for minor but major stuff---all in the debt as well. And even while you're paying within your agreed arrangement, the hospital collection department is dialing your phone 3 times a day.

I've never been one to take the kids to every little appointment in the world, but we definitely started getting "less likely to run to the doctor for stuff" as the second two kids came along. When you've got chronic medical debt from lack of health care coverage, you definitely stop running to the doctor for every little sniffle. This is horrible, because chronic conditions go way too long in this country, but people can't afford the constant trips to the doctor. Period.

We're a working family who pays for all of our other child care costs as well, no aid, but we're right in that void of millions who can't swing the private rates so we constantly have medical debt. In the big picture, it's not as simple as, "just pay it at your own pace later". The bills are huge. It's an extreme burden. I know several people who have been driven to bankruptcy by their medical bills, and now worry there will be an accident or illness that wracks up their balance again before they can file bankruptcy again in 7 years. Now obviously, you're not going to let your child have a terrible injury and ignore it rather than tack it onto your debt, But yeah, we steer clear of the doctor's office way more than our insured friends do.

People who say "everyone can get the help they need and if they don't go, it's because they're putting the dollar first" are usually A) republicans and B) insured.

As a nurse I do believe we overmedicate on illnesses. Sometimes being I'll is a way to build up that immune system. Why do you suppose mrsa is on the rise? An overuse and improper use of antibiotics when maybe our bodies are capable of healing...but slowly. By all means take an I'll child to the doctor if you're parental instinct is telling you something isn't right. But if you're avoiding because you can't afford the co-pay and the cigarettes...well...

I do not understand that concept either.

At our house, Health and Safety are priorities. I would never consider not taking our daughter to the Dr., if needed.

I'd go without something else instead of neglecting treatment for my child (or myself and hubby for that matter).

Some people don't have the choices that we do. Some people don't value the almighty dollar over their kids, they just know that if they have even one more bill to pay, they will lose their home. I won't assume that they are undervaluing their children until I see hard evidence of denying medical care because of malicious intent.

Don't assume that just because you know about hospitals write off programs that everyone else does. I had no idea until my sister needed emergency surgery. They had NO money and no insurance. The hospital did not allow them to pay off the $16,000 bill in $5-$10 dollar monthly installments and refused to reduce their bill because they hadn't applied for state insurance. They applied for state insurance and they deemed appendicitis a pre-exisiting condition. It all worked out in the end, but both the hospital and Minnesota Care kept them scrambling to do paperwork for 6 months before they would help them. The stress was enormous.
So, everything isn't as cut and dried as you laid it out. My husband and I weren't in a position to pay their hospital bill but we would have in a heartbeat because we saw the effect that it had on their family.

If you are getting your information on who does this from mamapedia and other sites I would venture a guess that you only have part of the story on: how severe the sickness is, the finacial situation of the person in question, how long the condition has been going on, etc.
I think we should all try to have some grace on people when we don't know the whole story.

First, I agree with most of what you said but it's not always true that hospitals will take any small , consistent payment. A very prominent childrens hospital in our area will NOT take just any payment. They want their money. They will work with you but on their terms , not yours.
I admit that I don't jet off to the doc, everytime my kids have a sniffle. Partly, because of money and I don't want to waste anyones time ( mine / docs). I'm assuming you are talking about a serious medical issue, though.
I think right now many families are in a tough situation. Insurance is so expensive, many can't afford premiums but make to much for state medical assistance. I'm sure for most it's a tough decision and I feel for people that have to decide if their childs medical issue warrants an expensive medical intervention or it is a virus that would solve itself.

I know that feeling! We spend 120$ a month on just meds for my son and another 60$ in copays. It gets hard some months to look at money and try to figure what we can go with out so we have the money to cover his stuff. I would eat ramen noodles everyday if I had to just so I assure he's got what he needs when it comes to his meds and dr. His health and well being is top priorty to us.

I'm not really sure what situation your referring to. Does the friend not take her child to the doctor when it is medically necessary? Does she really put the kids safety/health at risk? We can afford to take our children to the doctor and have decent insurance to cover the big stuf but honestly they very rarely need to go.
I did an occasional well baby check and then they go every few years as things might crop up but not for check ups, just if something is wrong that we can't remedy ourselves. I have friends that run to the doctor at the slightest sneeze, went to every well baby check up and have at least annual check ups for each kid. I don't really understand why. Injuries yes, unexplained or severe illness of course but those things just don't happen very often, do you really think your friend is ignoring a serious health problem or does she just not buy into the expensvie & flawed health care system we all have to live with?

This is why I'm so grateful to live in Canada.

I think many parents have gone in many times when the doc said "it's a virus, just gotta let it run it's course." I am with you, though we have enough money, I have to pay $150 each time I go in (and we do have insurance, it's just not very good), so I do tend to call and talk to a nurse to make sure that it is necessary, and I probably go more than it is really necessary, but there is a lot I could do for my kids health with $150 that is not going to the doctor. I think most people do go when it seems serious, but I've gone in or talked to a nurse many times when it seemed bad (listless, high fever, etc.) and they told me it was normal, let it run it's course, plus I hate to take them to the doc (do you like getting out when you feel terrible?) and expose them to more germs... I guess what I'm trying to say is that most people don't skip a necessary doc visit just because of money, we're all programmed to protect. I do think that people talk like that just because money is a hot topic right now. no feathers riled, just thinking the good in most everyone.

K.

Well, I am fortunate to have a fairly good insurance co. So I can only answer this from what I understand. Some hospitals will not take small payments. They will send you to collection before they accept $5 or $10 payments. Some patients/families do not know that you might be able to have some of the bill written off. Although a lot of times it is pay this amount now and we will write off whatever percentage In this economy they are not as forgiving...If you pay for the doctors visit and are prescribed a medication, even with insurance I have one copay that is $ 80 the actual price is over $250. I could not afford the doctor's visit and medication..... I would have to do without food or gas in the car... I am already down to a bare minimum on everything. One child was admitted to the hospital in June... I can barely afford to pay anything on what is left of the bills. Thank God I had the insurance because the bill was just short of $10,000. Now colds, some rashes... no I would not take her to the doctor unless everything I did would not work.....I do understand what you are saying but I also see another side and for most it may be an agonizing decision.

I feel very grateful that I do not know any mom like those you described. My mom friends all will take their child to the Dr if needed. I don't get why you would not either.

I don't get it either. If you're meaning for well visits, then I totally get why parents don't bring them in, especially if they do delayed or no vaccinations. But if their child is sick/hurt, definitely bring them in! Like you said, they'll allow almost any kind of repayment plan. There is really no reason not to. We never think of the cost in situations like that.

I don't get it either. My mother in law fell over the Fourth of July weekend. She just stubbed her toe, so we cleaned the wound and put a band-aid on it. A day or so later she noticed pain in her shoulder, but ignored it with the mindset of it was just soreness from the fall and will keep an eye on it. Then she got an odd bulge on her shoulder. Finally went to the doctor and learned she tore her rotary cuff in three different places and the bulge is the muscle actually hanging off of the bone. The doctor asked why she didn't come in sooner so they could re-attach it. I guess they aren't able to now, or perhaps it is due to money, she didn't say which. But it is just hanging there now. If the medical field is not your chosen profession, go to the doctor or at least call one to get some advice on your condition. They don't charge a co-pay for the phone call.
A.