Ferber Method, Crying It Out Etc.

I personally hate hate hate the ferber method. I think it's the most terrible parenting option, especially for such a young infant.

I really think there are much better options than crying it out, for a number of reasons. 4 months is so young. Why not swaddle, rock, swing, sing, speak soothingly while patting her tummy or back, play music, etc.? Yes she needs to learn to self soothe. But does she have to learn it by being left on her own? Absolutely not. You are there to model and teach her how to self soothe. Give her all the tools you can. And enjoy this time. She is only this tiny and dependent on you once in her life. Enjoy the chance you get to comfort her. I know it is a hard time for the whole household, but this is just part of being parents.

Im there with Katie. With my oldest daughter, I held her until she was a year old which was way too long. I know know know how it wasn't the best choice but she would not sleep. My hubby has to be up at 4 so we were kind of in the same predicament. I just wanted sleep! I read and tried everything but she just wanted held. I think you will have to hold out a little longer then start again around 6 months. Start a bedtime routine... Baths really help. Also, putting them in their own beds for naps helps (if that is an option)so they are familiar and its not a strange place to go to sleep. It does get better. When we finally tried to get her to sleep on her own, we were prepared for this battle. After crying for 15 minutes (we kept going in every few minutes), she went right to sleep and loves her bed. My husband and I are both softies so crying it out just wasn't an option and at 4 months, they are just too little to understand. Just my opinion :) Good Luck!!

I'm just gonna say it....why have babies if waking at night and soothing them to sleep is going to be a problem?

Ferber has come out and even said it shouldn't be done on an infant younger then 6 months. It's a baby, a 4 month old baby? I will never understand the push to make a baby sleep through the night at such young ages.

8 kids over a 21 year span and not once has it ever occurred to me to try cry it out. If sleep was that important I wouldn't have had kids to begin with.

Oh and stay away from Babywise...the APA does not recommend the book and it has been linked to many children that are failure to thrive.

I am a M. who couldn't stand to listen to her babies cry. Only ONE of my kids (my daughter) had "sleep issues" and they stemmed from something other than the fact that we co-slept with her, she only broke the habit of coming into someone's bed after waking in the middle of the night about a year ago, but she transitioned just fine into her own room to go to sleep at night. We co-slept with all 4 of our kids until they were about 3years old and then transitioned them into their own beds over a period of time.

i didn't place much stock in getting my babies to sleep all the way through the night before they were ready. I also nursed on demand through the first year and didn't nightwean until 18 months. I surrounded myself with friends who supported our way of thinking and our nighttime practices. And we downright refused to ever let them cry alone. Guess what we have now? Four kids who: aren't afraid to be away from us overnight and never had issues sleeping somewhere else than their bed, are emotionally secure, are empathetic and kind, still snuggle with me, respect our privacy and boundaries concerning my husband's and my bedroom, never ever had to cry alone in the dark and yet somehow they turned out just fine and we all made it through alive.

I agree with the sentiment that babies are suppose to keep you up at night, they are suppose to disrupt your world and they are suppose to NEED you. Why our culture insists we start to forcibly separate parents from kids at night at such a young age is beyond me. Four months old is still a newborn, you can't spoil them, you can't harm them with too much attention and love. period.

One more thing, don't go to your doctor for parenting advice. Why would your doctor have any say in how your baby goes to sleep, unless there is a medical issue you are not mentioning here? Who are they to say that your baby "needs to fall asleep on her own"? That's such vague and ridiculous advice imo. She's your baby, you do what feels right and good and ignore the rest.

Babies cry because they want you.
The time it's like this is very short.

Personally I think a 4 month old still needs help falling asleep and plenty of comfort. We didn't expect our son to reliably fall asleep on his own until the 7-10 month old time period. He feel asleep on his own when 6 months until he started teething, then it was erratic for awhile until about 9 months old. At 4 months, you should be working on creating a regular routine that can eventually be tweaked for your daughter as she gets a little older. And remember that every kid is different. You will have to experiment for what works for her sleep cycle.

Co-sleep. Nurse. Meet all babies needs. Comfort.Calm. Sing. Love. There is no need for CIO especially since your baby is so young. 4months old is so little! Please get a routine and stick to it so your baby follows your cues. They will adjust in time but this time period is critical for your baby to learn about trust, bonding, love etc. She doesn't understand when you leave her to cry that you will be back. They just don't. Infants have NO concept of time. She may eventually learn to stop crying. But that is not because you have made her go to sleep peacefully. She will have learned that you will stop coming. You won't come for her anymore--so she will give up and stop crying because she has learned that her mommy won't come to meet her need. The bond and trust can get broken because of this.

I am giving you the perspective of your 4 month old daughter. Please reconsider CIO. There is lots of info on www.Dr.Momma.org about the dangers of baby training and CIO. You can find fabulous suggestions on how to help your baby sleep and how to help your husband and yourself get the rest you need. Best wishes.

I was nursing full time and coslept with all 4 of my babies. It worked beautifully for both me and the baby, and can be done very safely, Dr Sears has a lot of good advice on the topic. I transitioned each of them to their own bed between 6mos and 1 yr depending on the circumstances and needs of each individual child. Three of my babies ended up being tummy sleepers when in their own bed. I am aware of the SIDS recommendations and all, so I am not advocating that for you necessarily, just sharing my experience. I am personally opposed to cry-it-out and the Ferber method, especially at 4 months old, even Ferber says it should not be done until at least 6 months. Your baby is so young and helpless, she needs you for comfort, support, and security. I don't know who you are talking to but a 4 month old should not be expected to sleep on their own or through the night. Some do, and that is great for those parents, but others NEED more time to reach that milestone. Not sure why "rocking is no longer an option"?

I feel your pain! Or rather, I DID (my kids are 11 and 9 now!) My first daughter cried non-stop until she was 3 months. At 3 months she'd cry unless you were holding her. I literally slept with her (I know, probably not the safest thing in the world, but sometimes you're so tired you just lose all senses) until she was 8 months old. So my first piece of advice is to hang in there. Eventually she'll sleep. I know, I know - that doesn't help you NOW! I don't think there is ANYTHING I could've done differently with the first one. That's just the way she was/is. Funny, she has never needed much sleep and she still doesn't. She can go to bed at 11pm and get up at 6am and go, go, go all day long.

We did the Ferber Method (I think?) with the second one and it worked like a charm. I can't remember how old she was, but 4 months sounds about right. I would nurse her until she was drowsy, but not alseep. Then I'd put her in bed and walk away. I would stand outside the door listening to her wimpering. When it got bad enough (5 minutes?) I'd go back in, rub her tummy or her head, tell her "night night" and walk back out. I remember being told not to make eye contact (not that she could see me in the dark, even with a small nightlight!) So I didn't look at her. The first night we did this I think it took over 90 minutes for her to fall asleep. Talk about exhausting. But gradually that time got less and less. I bet it was a week or so and I was able to stop going in there altogether. So, those first few crazy nights were awful, but it was worth it. Good luck. I know it's hard :)

Let your husband sleep. You can rock, swing, sooth your little baby. Four months old is a little young. Your baby might be hungry thru the night. I was up all hours with my babies when they were this young. Your baby might be wet, hungry or just need soothing.
Sorry I cannot help you with the Ferber Method, it always sounded cruel to me. I held mine until they were to old to rock.
If you have a rocking chair, use it. I loved mine!

We did the Ferber method with both of our kids. Four months is the minimum age and many people recommend waiting until five months. She also needs to be a minimum of 14-15 lbs. Any less than that and her body is not ready to make it through the night. Also, remember that, at this age "through the night" means about six hours.

When we did it with my son, he cried for an hour the first night, 15 minutes the second night, and five minutes the third night. After that, he would usually go right to sleep, but would sometimes cry for a minute or two.

My daughter took a little longer. I don't remember exactly, but I know there were 2-3 days with a lot of crying (45-75 minutes) and then a couple more days before it got down to five minutes or less. Still a week tops though.

Try putting her down to bed at 9 p.m. Expect her to cry. Go in after 5 minutes to check on her. Reassure her that she's ok and you're still there. After that, wait 10 minutes before going in again, then repeatedly go every 15 minutes after that.

It's going to be h*** o* all of you, but it does work. If you and your husband can take shifts, it helps to have a way to get a break from the crying. Take a shower or go outside so you don't hear it nonstop. I know, it isn't fun to think about letting your baby cry nonstop, but I truly believe it works in the end and it is worth it to have a baby who sleeps better.

I did Ferber with both boys, but I didn't do it until they were six months. Before six months I pretty much had to try to sleep with them latched on to me in bed. Ferber worked within a week for both kids, but there were times when they were sick or teething when we would have a setback and have to do it again for a day or two. Basically, you put the baby to bed awake, say goodnight, and leave the room. If baby cries, wait 5 minutes, then go in and say "it's time to go to sleep, goodnight" and leave the room again. If crying continues, wait 10 minutes, and repeat. Increase the waiting time by 5 minutes each time. Do it until baby goes to sleep. You will have a couple of rough nights, but it is important to be consistent. Maybe start it on the weekend when you don't have to get up early the next day.

You've gotten other responses about the Ferber method, though I didn't really read the responses. You've already indicated that you don't want a "cry-it-out" approach, so I'm going to suggest something else.

First, I'll say that after having been on this site for a very long time, I see the same people who loved co-sleeping, later come on here and ask how to get their older toddlers out of their beds. I will not suggest that. It comes between wives and their husbands and when the husbands get very tired of it, it can cause marriage problems. Women who say "so what" really aren't very fair to a very intrical part of the marriage when it comes to sharing the marriage bed with a squirmy 4 year old...

SO.... here is a different idea. If your baby won't go to sleep in the first place on her own, incorporate it from the beginning of putting her down. If it's only about waking in the middle of the night, start there. Never put baby down totally asleep. If you've given her a bottle or nursed her, put her down groggily awake so that she FEELS being put down in the bed. Let her fuss some. Sit on the floor beside the crib (it would be good if you have your back against the wall or something to brace it so it isn't so hard) and put your hand in between the slats and touch her FOOT. Do not talk to her. Do not look at her. Do not engage other than to touch her foot. She will know you are there, but you are not holding, rocking, standing, feeding her, talking, etc.

Do it for as long as it takes. The first several nights might last a long time. You will get very tired. But as time goes on, she will fall asleep faster and stay asleep longer. Eventually you won't have to do it long at all. She doesn't need to be taking a bottle or nursing in the middle of the night by now. If you have not weaned her, now would be the time.

If you want her to sleep through the night, don't wait until she can stand up in the crib to do this, because she will have trouble sitting down when she stands up. If she starts it after you have gotten her used to sleeping through the night, employ this same method. She will eventually lay back down in order to feel your hand, and then get used to sleeping through the night again. If she gets sick and you have to be up with her for several nights, you may have to revert back to this to get her back on the right track again...

I know this sounds hard, but if you can't stand going back in your own room and listening to her cry, this is the best option. You have to be 100% consistent and not give in to picking her up, rocking, swinging, talking, feeding, etc. Really.

You need to commit yourself to it for as long as it takes, or don't bother doing it at ALL. If you are wishy-washy, it increases her resolve because she realizes that the louder and longer she screams, the more chance that you will give her what she wants. It's better to get it over with so that you can all get healthy, need sleep every night.

Good luck,
Dawn

I think 4 months is too young. Try it at 6 months.

I did Ferber's method with our daughter. And it worked beautifully. But I did it only for getting her to bed initially (at 6 months)... she was already sleeping through the night.
For sleeping through the night, I followed the (highly controversial) On Becoming Babywise theory regarding the ORDER in which you do things with the baby.
Most babies spend their time in this order: sleep, awake, feed, sleep, awake, feed, etc.
The Babywise method turns that into: sleep, feed, awake, sleep, feed, awake EXCEPT at bedtime. When it is skips the "awake" period, and at the end of the feeding, you put them to bed drowsy, but awake. I did NOT use the babywise info to "schedule" how long between feedings or how many times a day my babies ate... only the ORDER. After they ate, I kept them awake until they got a little fussy, then let/encouraged them to sleep. When they woke after, they were usually hungry and fed again... and kept awake for a bit, until they were tired/fussy, and then to sleep again. The period of time they stayed awake got progressively longer, as did the period of time they slept. Especially at night.
My son (exclusively breast fed) slept in excess of 5-6 hours straight beginning at about 11 weeks. My daughter was sleeping 7 hours straight at night at 6 weeks. So by 4 months, they were sleeping almost all night long... I just had to get them into the crib and have them go to sleep without a lot of drama. Son, I didn't know about Ferber and I hated bedtime with him from about 10 months old until about 2 years old... because he could climb out of his crib and we had to put him on the floor, where I couldn't "contain" him until he fell asleep. It was AWFUL at bedtime.
Daughter? In 3 nights she was going into her crib awake at 7:00 pm and was asleep by 7:15, with no crying of fussing by night 4.

You can pretty much google Ferber Method to find out more, but know a few things going in:
1) You do not ignore you baby and let them cry until they fall asleep. You DO go in at specific intervals (increasingly farther apart, and not to exceed 15-20 minutes) to check on them.
2) It is not recommended as early as 4 months, I don't believe. Closer to 6 months, but before they can stand is a better plan, in my opinion.
Good luck.

ETA:
and 3) when you are waiting out the crying intervals, use a timer/clock. Do NOT try to estimate it... it will seem like forever, when it has only been 2 minutes.... and I mean that. It will seem like FOR.EV.ER... but you'll look at the clock and realize it was only 2-3 minutes... not nearly as long as it seemed.

I love Ferber, but even I think four months is too young. I really suggest The 90 Minute Baby Sleep Program by Dr. Polly Moore. Its an easy read and you can start getting more sleep pretty much immediately. I used it with my second and it was great.

Good luck!

No one should EVER be letting a 4 month old infant "cry it out". That is entirely too young. A tiny infant cries because it is scared, hungry, sick, or wet/pooped or needs the comfort if its mother. At 4 months old the child desperately needs the extra attention for bonding. The Ferber method should only be used in my opinion on a child over 1 year old. Even then it is highly situational and really depends on the child and their issues/needs.

I'm an adoptive M. and learned alot thru the process of raising a child with sleep issues and the strong need for attachment and bonding. The book "Healthy sleep habits -happy child" by Dr Marc Weissbluth helped with our son tremendously with info about sleep cycles and # of hours per day a child should sleep, natural sleep training -by anticipating that moment s child begins to get a bit tired and putting a child for naps and to bed before they cross the line of over-tiredness you train them to sleep more and more deeply. My fave quote from that book is " Sleep Begat Sleep" - meaning the earlier they go to bed the longer they will actually sleep and it works. Too many people keep babies and kids up too late. I would really suggest you check that book out. It was highly recommended by our adoption agency, support group of tons of other adoptive families and two pediatricians we dealt with. It really worked for us. We didn't start "behavioral sleep training" until our son was about 12-14 months old at the advice of our Ped and even them we still followed advice in this book about sleep habits. It provides info for birth to older children ages.

have you tried swaddling? .. my daughter falls asleep in about 2 minutes at night when we put her in her bassinett all wrapped up like a little burrito

Swaddling as other Moms have mentioned really helps. When my children were infants, I would gently rock the side of their bassinette a bit until they fell asleep. Or put my hand on them until they settled. It's hard at first because you are standing there in the dark and tired, but if you put the time in now... after a while it won't be necessary anymore. If you pick the baby up every time, she will continue to ask for you. By going to her and reassuring her however, you are providing comfort without giving her exactly what she wants - to be picked up.

If you are absolutely desperate, try letting her sleep buckled in a vibrating seat on the floor by your bed or inside her crib. I know people who did that and it worked. Putting the seat in the crib allows them to get used to that environment so they get more comfortable with it. This is a quick fix and it's a slippery slope because you don't want a baby to need a swing or a vibrating seat to relax and sleep.

Have you considered that she has reflux? Not sure how problematic the crying is but if she arches her back at all or spits up a lot those are signs. Reflux can also be "silent" with no symptoms except crying after feeding. There are wedges you can use or roll up a towel and elevate the head side of her mattress (crib or bassinette) slightly. You may want to consult your pediatrician if crying persists because there is treatment for that even for infants that works and they just grow out of the condition after a few months, particularly when they can sit up well on their own.

good luck... I feel for you

I didn't know one method from the other when I had my kids but I did stay with my first if he cried and sat by the bed patting him, etc. and he still would wake. When the second child was born the first was just a year old and still doing this and it got too much. The pediatrician said to let him cry it out and it was hard for me to do but I did and in only a few days he went right to sleep. Yes, he was a year old and not 4 months old. After that though I decided not to do a repeat of that pattern. One of our kids had allergies and colic and she did cry until 3 months old but that was even if held due to colic. After that she was a perfect baby and went right to sleep. With the others I just fed them and put them to bed. I will say I found for me that if you have a routine and some quiet it helps. I never had people tip toe or not talk because I think they need to learn to sleep in normal home noise but also they need it somewhat quiet without loud talking from other kids, etc. I sometimes put music on that was attached to the bed or in the room. Our last one slept at a very young age when just put down and no crying at all. I think they pick up on our expecting them to not sleep. Anyhow, I would try give her a bath at bedtime and feed her and put her in bed. Pat a second if you want and I also would sing or hum and that helped if you didn't stay long and make that a habit. It was the only time anyone enjoyed my singing. :-) Do you swaddle her at all? A blanket around her swaddled helps even if arms are out. My kids all slept on their stomach because that was before SIDS became a big deal. They did much better that way. Anyhow you need to get sleep so I hope you can get her falling asleep on her own soon.

Most CIO folks say to wait till 6 months.

What I do is to hold them until they are drowsy but awake, put them in the crib, and then I pick them up when they start to fuss. I repeat, and repeat and repeat until they go to sleep. I usually start this when they hit 12 weeks, during nap time. Within a week or so they learn how to put themselves down for a nap. Then, around 6 months, I do the same for their first night waking. A friend just did this with her 7 month old, and after a few nights, he was sleeping a solid 11 hours at night.

How long is "forever"?

Lots of moms don't actually try Ferber because the can't let the child cry for more than a few minutes. Time it next time and give her 10 or 15 minutes to cry.

Also make sure you feed her a bottle just before YOU go to bed - i.e. 10 or 11pm so that she has a full belly to last through the night.

And swaddling, as others have mentioneed is a life saver. She can't control her arms and their flailing is waking her up. in the womb she was confined and will find that comforting now.

Oh, and a noisemaker of some kind. It might be freaking her out that the world as she has known it was full of noise (she heard all that in the womb) is suddenly silent at night. Something that makes the woosh sound of the womb might also help.

They usually don't recommend you use this method until your baby is 6 months or older as they are still very small when they are 4 months old and probably just needing soothing and waking up because they are hungry.

i will say that we did do this with our son when he was 6 months old. Kind of hard to hear them cry but well worth it when they learn how to self sooth. Now I can just put my little one down completely awake and he falls asleep quickly.

Have you tried placing your baby down when she is awake but almost asleep. I would try that first and perhaps a pacifier or a noise machine in the room to help sooth. Good luck. THis is a hard age but they do become better sleepers.

We did Ferber, it worked for us. It was the hardest, but most worthwhile thing I did as a parent. Further, it helped to steel me for other difficult parenting situations. I recommend you get the book. It addresses sleep issues in infancy through the teen years.

You've got some great suggestions re: a variety of methods used.
Good luck to you and yours,
F. B.

Our pedi recommended that we go to him until our first reached a year old. Then it was time to start sleeping through the night. It was hard the first few days. Before that our time line was new born every two hrs 24 hrs a day. then around three months he started sleeping a little longer and it became every 3 or 4 hrs. Then around five months 5 or 6 hrs at a time.

My M. said she did not go get us durring the night and we had to fend for ourselves. Like it was her time to sleep and she did not mess with us durring the night! I find that very odd and wonder if others from her generation did the same??? (not recommended due to the risk of sids or if your baby gets stuck or is crying in pain or sickness)

You should start a eat, play , sleep routine. Read the book Becoming Babywise. It has some helpful tips.