Daughter Having Difficulties with School/peers

I haven't read all the responses, but my very first thought was the same as Paula's....a seasonal disorder. I think adults tend to forget that some people are hard-wired for emotional problems, it's not necessarily lifes hardships that get us down as we get older. You're daughter could be one of those who struggle with this her whole life, but that doesn't mean she can't learn great tools to help her cope. My first step would be to get her to a child psychologist and mention exactly what you said here.
~L.

Hi L.,
It seems like the most prominent emotion for her during these times is anger. and that's coming out as resistance to what people want her to do. You have to remember that the discipline you're using can create a cycle that helps perpetuate the problem. You punish her with doing book work, so she's punishing her teacher and you by not doing her book work. Maybe this isn't working for her and you need to look deeper. She's feeling like she has no control, and if she's really smart, this might be infuriating for her and she can't control the flood of emotion. Even if things seem on track for you, she's probably anticipating another dramatic change in her life as that seems to be the norm for her. you didn't mention the relationship she has to your fiance. this is very important, as are the feelings she has toward her birth father. She may have a built in sense of anger at him for leaving and starting all the changes that followed in her life. So how does she feel about her soon to be dad? Cause he's going to be the dad in her everyday life whether she sees her birth father or not. i can relate to this somewhat. My daughter was only 6 months when her dad and I split, but she's an extremely bright kid and even at that age, knew what was happening. That was when her tantrums started, not at 1 year like most kids. We were living with my parents, so my dad and her were joined at the hip. When she was 18 months i met my present husband, and after her 2nd birthday we moved in with him. Shortly after, I went to work full time for the first time since she was born. I had worked part time as a waitress at night before. So she had a new home, a new father figure, and had to go to a strange place with strangers for the first time ever. She had always been with someone she knew since birth, either my parents, or close family and friends that she knew very well. So all of this was very traumatic for her, especially at 2! So once things got set into a routine and was comfortable, by November of that year, I found out I was pregnant un-intentionally. She took the new baby very well and was so excited to be a sister. Meanwhile, since she was 2 she was spending 1 night a week with her dad (before that it was random visits at my parents house or his house.) When she would come home from his house she would be really upset when he left and she would have tantrums about anything. she would just fly into a rage and I would just watch her and feel so bad for how hurt she was that she couldn't see him more. Then, on top of it, my new boyfriend was very involved and had helped me with discipline, so this made her resent him, and call for her daddy, but then later, she'd be curled up on my boyfriends lap giggling and happy. they had a transition together, as she learned how to follow rules, and he learned to be smarter with how he dealt with her. their relationship has flourished and grown better every day.
We got married a month before the baby, and I continued to work until I had my son, and since then I've been home with them. then, the next year, we moved, not far, but she was happy with this change. So she's almost 5 now, and she's an incredible little girl! She's so smart and very in tune to emotions, so this has been a rocky road for all of us. She still has tantrums and fits of rage, and is relentless in her pursuit of happiness (or control). She does well in preschool, and this fall she'll start kindergarden, so we'll see how she does when it's every day. But at home, she's like an over confident dictator. hehe . she loves to be in control and tell people what to do, and so we butt heads a lot. this has created problems with her friends, because she gets too bossy and gets mad when they don't wanna play what she wants to. It's an ongoing process and unfortunately, she seems to have to learn things the hard way. I try to give her certain things she has control over, like her clothes and getting her own juice and snacks, and give her extra praise when she's being considerate of other's wishes, as this seems to be her weakness. Also, letting her help with my son has been a great thing for her. i think since I've been home and our life has been fairly consistant and solid for her, we've gotten out of the worst part of it for her. Maybe when things seem totally stable and consistant for your daughter, she won't be as anxious. Building that structure with your family is what you should focus on. And maybe you need to find a new therapist and see if there's something that was missing before. Maybe she needs to see one long term, as a way for her to always have and outlet that's consistant and she gets to work out her issues there instead of at school. Has she been in therapy while going back after Christmas? or has she been discharged before, and then is left alone during this time, when she might need support through it every year.
I also think you have to get to the bottom of this connection to Christmas season. when did the divorce happen? if it happened around christmas, then she's probably being forced to live through the same terrifying feelings that she can't help but associate with that time of year. she's identifying a pattern, but also, it could be the large amount of family time she gets during that break upsets her initial momentum that started in the fall, so that when she goes back, she's not as motivated, and resentful for having less time with you now that everything's back to the daily grind. Maybe she needs preparation before she goes back, like she might get in the early fall before school starts?
With the thing about her friends, it sounds to me like she has some issues with people in her life leaving her, in a sense, and having to share their attention and love.
Maybe she needs to play a team sport? That might give her a sense of belonging that's consistent and may be confidence building.

I'm sorry my post is so long, i just felt so compelled to write and explore this with you. I can relate to what you're going through and I wish your family all the best. i hope your little fighter takes off the gloves and finds her way through this. Do what you can to make her feel safe, i think she's really scared. Good luck, and you can email me if you want to talk more. ____@____.com

Hi L. ~

A good friend of mine's son does about the same thing as your daughter this time of year. He is in 4th grade, is extremely intellengent, easy to get along with until mid-winter when all bets are off. He has been diagnosed with seasonal depression, which unfortunately living in MI a lot of people suffer from, even children. I would talk with her counselor at school and her therapist to discuss the possibilities of it. Good luck!

She needs to see a child psychologist for help. Perhaps she is acting out because of your upcoming marriage for one thing, but she definitely needs to see a child therapist before this gets worse.

My daughter did the same thing. I found out that she was to bord at school. Have her tested to see if she if "Gifted". If she is, you can get her place into another school setting that will challenge her.
If you need help with the process or have more questions, please give me a call.
C.
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L., I'd like to follow up on your comment that your daughter is quite bright when she wants to be. What has the counselor said about this? I've learned the hard way that schools could do a much better job of supporting their gifted students - and if your daughter starts off well but the year deteriorates, that sounds like our pattern. I was dismayed to learn that gifted girls often lose IQ by the time they're pre-teens - honestly LOSE the intelligence - because they want so badly to fit in with classmates who aren't as bright. Does your school offer a coordinator for the gifted/talented, and has your daughter been evaluated? Please check on this.
Third grade was our roughest year (our daughter rarely acted out, instead she internalized her stress and gained weight - going from thin/normal to 40# overweight - mostly due to one particularly unhappy female classmate who was a bully, and a teacher who didn't believe in stopping bullying). Once I finally understood what was going on, I enlisted her older brothers to become her staunchest supporters: they wouldn't let her believe the things her 'friends' said. (We couldn't afford any more counseling, used it up on first of 3 kids at genius level.) During middle school she finally found a group of truer friends, some of whom were also very able. Life improved for all, and she is now a confident, loving, tougher, (normal weight) college student.
L., if she is identified as gifted,it is critical that her classwork be more in-depth to stay interesting, not the punishment of busywork. Good luck, JB

I deal with this with my boys, too. They do really good the first part of the year and then slack off towards the end of winter/beginning of spring. I would take her to a psychiatrist and let him/her know exactly what you've told us here, that it is a seasonal thing. Maybe she would benifit from some medication through the end of winter. You never know, there may be some herbal alternatives to medications, too. Have you tried giving her St. John's Wort? (sp?) That may be the boost she needs to even out her behaviors. Other than that it sounds like you're on the right track with the disciplin/award system you have in place as well as having her talk to the school counselor. Keep your head up - things will work out.

S.

L.- Sounds like your daughter has been living for several years with alot of change and stress in her life. Some kids are more affected by what they perceive to be an unstable/ever changing world. Her acting out could be totally associated to not feeling in control of her environment. For some kids having control and a predictable lifestyle is very important it is part of who they are and they have trouble accepting changes and internalize stress in their environment. Even good stress like your upcoming marriage.

Another thought I had is looking for the trigger, if every year the change happens after Christmas there could be a connection to this holiday that is extremely negative to your daughter. She might have a memory of something that happened to her or your family associated to Christmas. It could be that she is able to push away the memory until the same time in occured every year. I would talk with the a therapist and see if they think this is possible.

Good Luck and God Bless

Hi L.,

I work at an elementary school as a Literacy Assistant. My main group level is Second and Third Grade.

#1 - I have to say, PLEASE don't make your daughter do reading and math as a punishment. You will end up making her hate these subjects and we all know how important they are. Sending her to her room to think about it may help or making her write down what she is feeling may help. Have her start a journal. They have been proven to help many people with issues they don't feel they can communicate openly about.

You never talked about what your counseling sessions consisted of. I know my son never ever told his real issues to them.

COMMUNICATION is the most important thing we can do for our children even when they don't want to. She has something to say and needs to know that when she comes to you with her problem, that you will do anything and everything you can to assist her through it. Some things, they just need to work out on their own. Ask her a few things like: How did you feel when that happened? What could you have done to change this around or make it better? What will you do the next time this happens to you? Make her sit and think about it. Ask her too how she would feel if someone did the same thing to her?

Unfortunately, at your daughter's age they are beginning to establish clics. This might entail anywhere from 2-20 people. It sounds to me that your daughter may be a little insecure about her feelings toward her friends and whether or not they like her more than someone else. I tried to explain to my daughter that it was OK to have a lot of friends and just one special friend at the same time. She had a friend that would get extremely jealous if she spoke to anyone else. She would even start treating my daughter unfairly and unfriendlike. The advice I gave to my daughter was to tell her friend that her treatment of her was unacceptable and if she continued, she would not hang around her anymore. A few times, my daughter came home early from a playdate with her and would say she was treating her badly so she left. This only happened a few times and her friend got the message and decided she still wanted my daughter for her friend and stopped her bad behavior. She still would get anxious when they were around other people but kept her temper in check. My daughter didn't treat her any differently when they were alone or with others and that's what I think made the jealous friend feel more at ease.

About her schoolwork and her treatment of the teacher. "TOO BAD, SO SAD". She needs to realize that these people are authority figures and it is NOT ACCEPTABLE to treat them without respect.

I think you're doing the right thing with your daughter and praising her whenever she behaves properly. She needs to understand there are "Good Consequences and Bad Consequences."

Good Luck. I hope you get the results you are looking for for your whole family's sake and especially for your daughter.

We have had the exact same issue with our daughter. She was getting good grades when she wanted. And was not staying on task. I too thought that it was because of some staffing changes at the school. She had a different sub for about 3 months. I just thought that it was behavioral. We too started our daughter in school early because she was bright and getting very bored in preschool. We made the decision as a family to keep her in 3rd grade again. We thought maybe it was just a maturity issue. She was young for her grade. I think that was the best thing that we did. Now she is with kids her age and seems to be where she needs to be with maturity. However, staying on task still seems to be an issue. She has even complained that she is try really hard to focus and just can't. She can sit still for long periods of time, so we decided that ADHD was not an issue. However, beccause my daughter has been complaining about not being able to focus, I decided to mention it to the doctor when we were there for another reason. He told me that children can have attention deficite without haveing the hyper activity. I was not aware of that. We have seen a neuropsychologist. We have found out after a lot of testing that she has a mild case of attention deficite. She is on a low dose of medication and is doing soooooooo much better.

I know that it is hard to think that there may be other issues. I had people tell me that they thought she was AD but I told them no...I thought is was behavioral issues. I think that now that my daughter is a little older and can express herself better and understand her own body better, she knows that she can tell us what is going on. And maybe she is just tired of getting into trouble for something that she can not control. It is a wonder what a year of maturity can do.

People have made some good suggestions; I agree counseling needs to be part of her life again; my other thought is I would not "punish" her by having her read a book and write about it or doing extra math problems - that is using what she is already resisting and maybe making it worse.

I encourage you to consider the "goal of her misbehavior" - why is she doing what she is doing? Kids don't misbehave for no reason. It is hard for us adults to communicate to another adult why we are in a "funk" - I can't imagine what it would be like to be in 3rd grade and having feelings or having something going on that I didn't know how to share.

I would also take a look at the Love and Logic series; there are books written for age appropriate discipline using natural consequences in a positive manner. They also have a website www.loveandlogic.com with some good tips.

Just my thoughts as a teacher...school gets harder after Christmas. The first part of the school year is so busy and everything is new...there are so many holidays, etc. to keep things fun. A lot of the really "get down to it" type of learning doesn't start until after Christmas. At this time of year, teachers are in crunch time to get everything in before the end of the year. So, if you daughter was experiencing any problems or stress (which sounds probable), this time of year will only compound them as school is getting more serious and her teacher is probably getting stressed/pressured about getting all of her students ready for the next year. I don't really have a lot of advice to give you, but just be aware that that might be part of the reason you see this every year.

Something you might try is taking the focus off her behavior and shifting it to the reasons WHY she is behaving that way. As a teacher with a focus in behavior modification, you have to know the reason for a behavior in order to effectively change it. It seems to me she is bottling up some anger and maybe resentments. When she gets in trouble or is acting angry, open up the communication and start with saying things that acknowledge you recognize she is angry. Tell her "Things have really been difficult the last few years, haven't they?" Open it up for her to feel comfortable talking about how she still may feel about all the changes - losing contact with dad, new babies, maybe feeling brushed aside, sharing mom with a new guy, etc. I know it sounds like a contradiction, since you don't want to feel like you are rewarding negative behavior with attention, but she seems to be acting out for attention - negative attention is better than feeling unimportant or brushed aside (not intentionally on your part of course but kids have a way of rationalizing that everything negative that happens to them is THEIR fault). So rather than taking away activities that focus on family together time, try to bring her into those more and maybe set up more one-on-one activities for you and her. You can also bring in the sense of responsibility for her own behavior by allowing her girl scout leader or others around her to clearly set their limits and boundaries. Then if she doesn't meet the behavioral standard for that activity, its not you taking it away as punishment but instead its her not meeting the criteria to attend and "I really hope that you make a better choice next time to meet the standard to be able to go to girl scouts". I hope some of this helps - it seems like she does better with counseling - she may feel like that is a safe place to express the anger and resentments. Then after discharge, she bottles up and can only keep it in for so long before it starts coming out again. Have your own counseling sessions with her where she can express herself and feel safe to say anything she feels, even if it might hurt your feelings. Keep the focus on her expressing her angers, frustrations, etc. rather than keeping them bottled up. Good Luck!

That is a lot of happenings. Now you are back to work full time and less time with your kids plus you did not mention how the new man in your life is toward her or yours and his daughter. Is she with him more than you? Could fears about her fathers reactions be the same for the new step dad? Is this new person have the same personality as her dad? If so, are the same things happening and it is difficult to admit to that? Maybe more counseling in a different way. By that I mean art therapist which deals with a child's problems differently. What happened or happens after Christmas that was significant ? Just thoughts.

D.

L.,
You've gotten a lot of really good advice here. Seems like there are some very bright ladies here.
Your story reminds me of me and my eldest son. I grew up in an ever changing environment for my first 12 years, the only security I knew were my grandparents, they never changed, they never moved, they remained stedfast. When my father finally settled down, things were...calm, nice, happy, unchanging, everything I was not use to. I would create my own chaos then to upset this balance, because that was what I was used to. It took years for me to realize that life did not have to be unbalanced.
My eldest son had done the same things. In the beginning after his father and I divorced, life got a little crazy. And he reacted the same way I did when things fainally settled down.
Scary to think that we could actually get used to and expect this kind of chaos isn't it? Learning to undo it is the trick and also very difficult to do, your daughter is so young and there is much she doesn't understand. I would continue the counseling, talk to her as much as you can, and be sure to just hold her. Maybe take some time during the week and focus it on her, even if she has had a hard day.
I wish you lots of luck.
God Bless,
W.

Give her a notebook and tell her she can draw pictures, write about her feelings and unless she shows it to you; you will not open it. Sometimes things are a bit overwelming for children to understand. My stepmom gave me a notebook to draw or write in and she promised she would never open it unless I gave it to her. She has lived up to her promise after 30 years. Once she moved to Tennessee and was unpacking some old pictures she found one of my notebooks and called me and said she would mail it to be and hasn't opened it. I received it a few days later and read it, I sent it back to her to share.
She never knew some of the things I was going through but thought it was helpful as I had some control.
Just a suggestion,
Hope things get better for you and your family.
D.

L.,

is she disrespectful to you and your fiance at home? Discipline begins in the home, and there is no excuse for your daughter to be disrepectful to a teacher or any other authority figure. I'm not questioning how you choose to parent, but it sounds like you have made a lot of allowances and excuses for her behavior, when there should be none.

After all these years and repeating the same pattern year after year, she knows what she can and cannot get away with - a child will definitely push it to the limits if he/she is allowed. If she's very bright, she simply may not be challenged enough, so is disruptive in class. She may also have Seasonal Affective Disorder, or the winter blahs that so many of us get around that same time of year. It could be as complicated as SAD, a mild form of clinical depression, or as simple as childhood defiance.

My 9 year old went through the same thing with friends last year in 3rd grade - she made one friend, and she did not like it when her friend played with other kids. Well, my daughter is extremely introverted, so if she wasn't playing with her one friend, she didn't play with anyone, and she was sad, but never mean or hostile toward other kids.

Kids learn how to relate to others by the examples they see in their home. What has your daughter seen at your home or her dad's home that would lead her to believe that acting jealous or hostile towards other kids is how she can get them to do what she wants?

You have to relate to your child in the home, and set expectations concerning behavior, the way you would want her to act when she's not with you. Two sets of rules can't apply, and after reading what you wrote, I think what your daughter lacks is consistency. Just because you didn't have a great family life doesn't mean you can't set expectations within your own family and do something different.

Hi L.. Your daughter has been through alot. This probably happens after Christmas because she longs to have a family together at that time. Listening to other childrens Christmas stories. etc. My suggestion is that you find a good church, one that she likes as well as you. God needs to be your foundation, there will be more support there for her. I would suggest you don't have a live in lover since that is not God's will for anyone. You are trying to teach your daughter right from wrong, and then have your fiance move in with you. I am not condemming you, I have made many bad choices in my life and will continue, but I wasn't following Gods word and life was confusing. Once you have a personal relationship with Jesus things will start to make sence. A good church family is like a left arm in times like this.The best thing you could ever do for your children is to bring them up in a Christian home. Start out by getting on your knees and ask God for forgiveness (we all need it) ask Him into your heart, and live for Him. Then watch to see how things change for you. Put your daughter first and focus on her, not the new man.I am praying for your situation. Please take this advice.God made us, He knows what will work. Don't keep going around the same mountain by doing it your way or you'll never be happy. C.

Hey L.-I went through a divorce when my oldest was about 6 years old...she was very angry and went to counseling and then we ended that after a few months, things were going well. Mostly what they suggest, and this is probably something you are already doing, is to really build her up. Notice the positive, even if it is a little thing. She is getting a lot of attention for her "bad" behavior and so, even though it is negative attention, it is more attention. Find ways to praise her, find ways to do something special, have a reward for extra good behavior-ie: one full day without getting in trouble with the teacher = 1/2 hour alone time with you, or a special treat(McFlurry, candy bar, stickers-whatever you can afford). Make sure it is for her alone.

I am a single mom with 3 girls and it's hard to find quality time. Just keep reminding them how important they are to you, try to give them something-even if it is just a special reading time at night. Let them know that you care-they will see it, and as long as you are honest, and tell them we work together as a family, it usually works out. GOOD LUCK!

N.