My kids are 13 & 11, boy & girl. They argue constantly. I'm not talking about simple bickering, they're arguing. They bicker too, but it leads almost immediately to a fight. They are nasty to each other as well, name calling, I hate you's, etc - of course we address this immediately when we hear it but I know it's going on when we're not in the room. I truly believe if there wasn't a parent around they would physically get into it. They used to be friends, some bickering but nothing abnormal for siblings. This just seems extreme, my brother and I didn't get along but we didn't fight like this. If they are in a room together for more then 5 minutes the fighting starts. They can argue over anything - how to set the table, who last unloaded the dishwasher, the tv remote, literally anything and lately it seems like everything. I've told them they don't have to like each other, they don't have to hang out together, but they do have to be respectful and they're struggling with even that small task. I'm taking them to visit my Mom in 2 weeks and am dreading it. We'll be there for a week in a small condo and I have to work while I'm there (yes, I have to, no way out of it because of impending layoff, non-refundable tickets).
Any ideas on how to help them work through this? Any ideas on how to manage while we're at my Mom's?
Thanks everyone, helps to hear this is pretty normal! Lol JulieS, I would Love to remove myself from the equation but I work from home so I am a captive audience. I don't listen to their arguments or take sides, when it gets to a point where I have to get involved they both get the same consequences. I do need to do a better job of spelling it out; this afternoon they wanted me to swim with them so I told them the first word of argument from either one and I would get out of the pool - lo and behold we played volleyball for almost an hour with no arguments! I'll check into the book recommendations too, give me something to read on the plane to grandma's. Thanks everyone!
Separate them as much as possible.
Have them do separate tasks away from each other.
If they can't say anything nice to each other - then they say nothing at all.
Additional:
Being alone together will NOT stop the fighting.
My sister and I fought like cats and dogs - and it didn't matter if anyone else was there or not.
My boys fight too. To avoid the fighting I plan ahead. I plan separate activities for them. I might drop one off at the Y and tell the other to ride his bike to the community club. I put them in different camps on different weeks. I get them to call their friends and make plans. When we go on outings I let them each bring a friend. If we are stuck at home I send them into different rooms if they fight. One can go to the rec room the other can have the living room. Even when we go camping I find ways to separate them, such as sending one for firewood while the other goes for water. If I keep them apart as much as possible they get along much better when they are together.
Get this book:
"Mom, Jason's Breathing on Me!": The Solution to Sibling Bickering by Anthony Wolf.
This book is brilliant and will help you enormously.
Wolf suggests three basic rules: don't take sides, act whenever you start getting irritated (separate the kids) and never listen to what's going on.
This book is filled with real life examples - you'll think that Wolf's been to your house. It's an easy read and funny.
I have 5 kids (15, 13, 7, 5, & 3). I use Wolf's method. It's easy and it works.
Best,
T. Y
There was a similar question the other day - maybe some of those answers will help you too: http://www.mamapedia.com/questions/16504437585729617921
It seems to me that they don't have severe enough consequences. I think you do not have to intervene all the time - just separate them and tell them the consequences will be severe and immediate if a) they touch each other, b) destroy anything or c) talk loud enough for you to overhear it.
Arguing over the TV? Unplug it or - no kidding - put it in the closet (Yes I know that impacts you too but sometimes you have to be drastic). Arguing over the dishwasher or the table setting? Stop cooking for them. Not one meal. There are no dishes? Oh well - just take out what you need for yourself personally. Really. They will not starve without a vegetable or a real meal for a few days. They can live on PB&J they make themselves 3 times a day - that will get old really fast. Privileges or day trips or treats? No, sorry, they are too immature - they not only fight, they blame the other one. Do not do their laundry - after all, you are too tired from unloading the few dishes you yourself need or setting/clearing the table. They will not die from having to wear their clothes again, but they will be humiliated. That's okay. You are simply not interested in doing one single thing for people who are so unappreciative and so disrespectful of family and caring gestures. The point is, you take away EVERYTHING that is the subject of an argument or disrespect. If the family room and their own rooms are bare - terrific! Very graphic! Everything in their house is a privilege, not a right, except for extremely basic food and a roof over their heads and a bathroom.
If they are so incredibly angry that they need counseling, then set that up. Maybe a few sessions in how to negotiate and appreciate would be good - perhaps instead of summer camp or time with friends.
Don't argue, don't referee, don't get involved at all. This will take all your patience and resolve.
They are at the age when they want more independence. Take that away. No, they are no going anywhere because they cannot be trusted to watch their mouths with others or be respectful of other people. If they say, "No, we can control it elsewhere" then you of course say, "So, it's a choice to act the way you do at home, because you actually know better and can control it?" Then you are too immature to be worth my time. Be ruthless. It will work. My guess is that they will not do this in front of Grandma. But if they do, don't tolerate it - they can sit outside 100 yards apart at her house too - just far enough to not be able to hear each other's BS. If anyone asks what they are doing there (neighbor, police officer), they can just explain that they are too young to behave themselves and they are in time out.
Do not let them run the show. Take away anything and everything that is important - no threats, no warnings, just do it. Refuse to argue about it. This is excellent practice for the teen years!
My sister and I got into physical fights all the time when we were kids. It drove my mom bonkers. Part of it was it was a tough time and we took our stress out on each other. It wasn't good or right or acceptable, but it was a symptom of other chaos in our household. If you have other issues at home, take a look at those as well, for possible underlying tensions. My sister and I are about 3 yrs. apart and her tween years and my teen years were terrible.
http://www.parenting.com/article/6-ways-to-stop-sibling-f... -- FWIW.
I'd lay out expectations for being at Grandma's, and the consequences of not behaving.
My mother would unplug the TV if we fought over it. There are times when less is more. Instead of getting into their argument, consider warning them once, and then doling it out. They can't agree on the TV station? No tv at all. When my sks would argue who last unloaded the DW, we would say that we chose x to do it, end of discussion.
When you tell them to be respectful, do you model it? Do you give them examples? "What I heard was Johnny telling Karen to get out of his face. What I would like to hear is Johnny asking Karen to give him more space on the couch, please, and for Karen to acknowledge that she is sitting too close and he doesn't like that." Or "I am hearing Karen tell Johnny that she hates him. I understand that Karen might not feel too happy about Johnny doing x, but I would like Karen to use her words and for Johnny to listen and apologize."
Even teenagers need to "use their words" in a constructive way. I also tell my DD "You have two ears and one mouth. Listen twice as much as you talk."
Are they together 24/7? With it being summer, can't they have some activities that don't involve the other?
Your 13 yr old is in the prime of teen hormones and the 11yr old is approaching soon.
If they are around your mom, they might act differently.
I would make sure they have some private time to themselves for activities with other friends and just plain downtime alone.
I can easily see if they are together 24/7 with nothing to do that they would be bored and this behavior can be a result of that boredom. Also, the comment about modeling positive behavior is spot on. Look within your family dynamics and figure out if there is an underlying issue.
Communicate with them and listen to them.
I'd implement major consequences for the behavior. You fight = you get extra chores, you lose computer time, you miss out on prime activities, whatever will bother them most. Doesn't matter who started it. You hear the voice involved in a fight, boom, consequences.
I really would try to keep them apart as much as you can. Fighting definitely increases in summer when kids are together more. See if you can keep them busy with friends over and other activities so they're less likely to be hanging out with each other.
My older brother and I fought like cats and dogs from about age ten til end of high school, we are also 2 years apart. Eventually, my mother used to make us sit on the couch holding hands every time we got out of hand. That did not stop the fighting, but we did tone it down quite bit.
Try to keep them apart when you can. Give them separate chores and find ways to give them space away from each other. Know that they are likely equally at fault but try not to assign blame, it will become a contest to get the other into trouble.
My brother and I are now friends, our children play with each other, and we haven't fought in years. But it took the space of college between us for us to mature fully.
PS We knew not to take the fight outside the home. They need to know that there will be repercussions for disrespecting grandma's house with their fight, and that you will follow through.
Mine will get on each other's nerves and it can escalate - especially now that it's summer and they are seeing each other more. Is one of your kids worse than the other? Is there one that starts the bickering/fights?
I have one. And all it takes is one! He's an introvert and seriously, by the end of the day, he's just tired of everyone. Gets very snippy. Thankfully the other kids recognize this, but sometimes kids egg each other on, and maybe that's what's happening with yours. I've certainly seen it here before.
I still separate them just as I did when they were little. Camps, friends, different outings, telling some to go off to park ... whatever it takes. And alone time, or time with mom or dad.
At your mom's house, they will be better behaved I'm sure. Mine come across as angels with my mother :) But just have some ideas for them - mine will play board games still (for a limited time), etc. So long as your mom breaks it up for them, change of scenery and has places that the kids could at least escape to on their on their own .. it should be ok.
Mine are pretty awful if they've been on electronics too long. I have this summer said "everyone hand them over" on many occasions. Then we have an electronic free day. The mood changes big time.
Good luck :) It's pretty normal though. My family was like this growing up. Back then the consequences were worse (my mom was one tough cookie) and we also took off more (bikes, etc.) then kids seem to today. But there was a lot of fighting (we're very close now).
Good luck and I hope the trip goes well :)
It is normal for siblings to bicker and to argue. It is normal for them to occasionally hate one another, or even to not love one another at all. Being related does not equate to automatic love.
My sister and I love each other but didn't get along as kids because we had littler in common beyond the gene pool. We didn't liket he same music, the same clothing styles, the same tv shows, the same anything. And we shared a room from the day she was born until the day I got married and moved out.
Tell them they can bicker all they want, but that you do not wish to hear it.
When my kids get into those patterns of arguing, I let them know that they will both lose their screens for the whole day, no matter who started it. I actually did this too for tattling on each other. Works like a charm. I also work very hard to compliment them when they are kind to one another. I give them lots of praise for patience too. If they do have a conflict, I try to help resolve it and teach them some coping skills and how to handle it without name calling and nastiness.
It also helps mine when I give them separate to-do chore lists. It's from me, so there is no need to argue about chores with each other. I write a few on the calendar each day and they knock them out in the morning. They shouldn't have to argue with each other about daily chores, since you are the one asking them to do things. I tend to think they should have solidarity on that one.
We do a lot of taking turns at our house too. You choose the movie this night, then the next time it's the other one's turn.
We don't generally have issues, since they seem to know that nothing good can come of arguing. It also works wonders when they have some time apart.
Sometimes kids don't have the words or strategies to avoid conflict. They need to be taught how to walk away, control their anger, what tone to use, basically to think before they speak or act. I wish I could suggest a helpful book! Perhaps you could search one out.
Otherwise, a few short counseling sessions (kind of like marriage counseling?) may help give them the tools they need to communicate better, respect each other and not fight! While I think their behavior is "normal" perhaps a few new strategies might be in order. Good luck!
Stop being the audience. If they were left alone they would not fight. You are the one who created the pattern, we get in fights, mom picks the favorite. Stop doing that and they won't fight.
My family had a chart on who had which chores on which night, the order in who took a shower, who had control of the TV, how long they had control of the TV, etc. It solved a lot of fights because we just checked the chart. Yes, this went on well into our teen years. As for the other fighting, my mom just let us go. It got ugly and vicious sometimes, but we are all in our 30s and 40s and we are all close now. I have 9 brothers and sisters and we all fought and we all get along now. You can also set up house rules, all written down, and have strict consequences for their behavior. No phone, iPad, TV, friends, whatever their currency is.
My sister & I fought ALL the time.
Mom never left us alone together. For example, she wasn't allowed to
babysit me for that reason.
Just separate them.
Don't make them do things together.
YOU keep track of the chores so they can't displace the work or blame the
other saying it's their turn. Put it on a calendar in the kitchen. Make it easy
for yourself.
Figure out things to do ahead of time at your mom's condo. Does her condo
are have a pool? Nearby to an amusement park? Bring board games they
can play there....or better yet their electronic devices they can use when
you need to work AND in the car on the way there.
Don't expect them to play together or hang out together at this age. They are not only different ages but different genders.
By a certain age, don't expect or make them play together. Just make them
be respectful to each other (no hitting, no name calling). Let them do their
own thing separately in their own space.
Have them take things to do while at your mom's (son: a basketball etc. your
daughter: craft stuff to work on etc.).
Again, find things to do there. Maybe your mom could take your daughter out
shopping one day then the next day take your son to a movie or sporting
event.
Hang in there. They'll appreciate each other when they are older!!
It's summer and not too surprising that our kiddos would get tired of being around one another ALL THE TIME. I suggest that you separate them. They can do chores in different rooms, they can go play and do different things, they don't have to be together all the time.
As we have created an environment in which they are not REQUIRED to entertain one another all the time, our kids usually separate on their own, but every so often one of them is feeling onery and decides to take it out on the other. Not often, but occasionally.
My boys are 12 and 14, and generally get along well...but sometimes they'll bicker and argue. If it's over something specific, like TV or a game, I simply tell them to turn it off or put it away and go do something else. If they're just being turds to one another, and there's a clear instigator, I tell the instigator to leave. If they're both in on it, I kick them outside, give them a chore, or just tell them to separate and leave one another alone.
Good luck!
find an activity that they liike to do alone and make sure that is avalable while your working and they are with you rmom.
let them know that fighting will not be tolerated and they will both have strict consequences if they fight. no matter who started it they get the same treatment afterward. and distract them by doing something new.. if you don't go places take them to a museum or zoo or someplace new, a waterpark, or theme park.. break the routine and have a fun day, it may just be summer break thats geting them cranky with one another.
My kids are younger than yours (6 & 9) but when they start to get into it, I tell them they need to do something more productive with their time and give them each a separate chore to do. This removes them from each other and gives them something to consider next time they want to get into it.
I also made sure to have a very intentional discussion with my husband, (when I knew the kids could hear, but I pretended I didn't know they were there - so they felt like they were overhearing some important stuff), that when they are fighting I'll give them something better to do, but when they are getting along I won't disturb them with chores - I'll let them play and enjoy each other.
Maybe when they are both calm sometime, try having a heart to heart about why they fight so much - maybe right before bed with no TV on or devices running. Think about some open ended questions to ask them together about their frustrations with each other and tell them we are going to talk, not fight and raise our voices. It probably won't solve anything, but it will force them to recognize that it is an issue and not just a normal way of life.
Good luck!
i know you have already gotten your answers, I'm sitting here thinking, does this mom really have 2 kids that equally argue? if you impartially tallied it up, would you not find that one of them is constantly instigating? I don't have any advice for you but I'm glad you shared this because it is going to make me go back and look and try to be more open minded in my own situation. I feel my dd starts it a l l the time and then when ds tried to defend himself it escalates but i need to figure out how to keep her from setting him off.
good luck on your trip maybe they will be embarrassed to fight in f ront of granma
